@tammany For sure. Not to discuss them more than is necessary, but I still don't think their defense or athleticism will hold up to elite level teams in the tourney. But I'm not nearly as confident of that today, as I was when they were losing all those games at the end of this past season. They're gonna be really good.
DeVries getting a visit from a guy like Kinney is a good overall sign. Obviously he needs to land a good blend of elite HS and portal guys...but if/when he does, he has proven himself to be a very good basketball coach. I think IU's "ceiling" will end up being higher than Purdues, fairly soon. But definitely not this upcoming season.
@iunorth Hope you're right.
I like CDD and his staff and think he can get us back to being a consistent top-20 team by next season. But, they have a lot of work to do.
I think IU's "ceiling" will end up being higher than Purdues, fairly soon. But definitely not this upcoming season.
what do you view as their ceiling? The only thing they haven’t done is win it all. It’s easy to say that they don’t have the athletes to be elite nationally. But, that is if you take a Sith like pov that you have to win it all to be elite.
I know that you believe IU has the higher ceiling. Hopefully you are right. On the flip side, I am concerned that IU’s ceiling as a program is Purdue’s current floor.
@gerdis We'll see what happens this year. PU has a loaded team. But I still think they're limited against truly elite national level teams. They're not athletic enough, they didn't address their defense enough. And I'll say it again, I think Edey was really the reason Purdue got where they did a couple years ago. So I don't see their ceiling as FF or Natty game. Obviously this years team could prove me wrong on that. But as a program, that's not where I see them going. Wisconsin-ish... a run once every 10 years or so when the right guy, or guys come along. But not a UConn, Florida, Kansas, Duke type of program in terms of yearly ceiling and expectations.
And I know its difficult to envision IU being a nationally elite program again. Its been soo long. But IU is already being mentioned with a handful of high four star, and 5 star kids. Indiana provides that capacity to its coaches. Time will tell if CDD is finally a guy that can land the right mix of those kids, transfers, glue kids, etc... to be consistently elite. But getting guys like Kinney on campus, immediately being mentioned with guys like Maarkinen... I think IU's "ceiling" is within a couple seasons, becoming a legit elite program, final four level program, Natty contending program.
And yes, Purdue has a high floor. So what? I'm more worried about ceilings, and IU getting closer to touching theirs.
@gerdis We'll see what happens this year. PU has a loaded team. But I still think they're limited against truly elite national level teams. They're not athletic enough, they didn't address their defense enough. And I'll say it again, I think Edey was really the reason Purdue got where they did a couple years ago. So I don't see their ceiling as FF or Natty game. Obviously this years team could prove me wrong on that. But as a program, that's not where I see them going. Wisconsin-ish... a run once every 10 years or so when the right guy, or guys come along. But not a UConn, Florida, Kansas, Duke type of program in terms of yearly ceiling and expectations.
And I know its difficult to envision IU being a nationally elite program again. Its been soo long. But IU is already being mentioned with a handful of high four star, and 5 star kids. Indiana provides that capacity to its coaches. Time will tell if CDD is finally a guy that can land the right mix of those kids, transfers, glue kids, etc... to be consistently elite. But getting guys like Kinney on campus, immediately being mentioned with guys like Maarkinen... I think IU's "ceiling" is within a couple seasons, becoming a legit elite program, final four level program, Natty contending program.
And yes, Purdue has a high floor. So what? I'm more worried about ceilings, and IU getting closer to touching theirs.
I understand what you are saying, but I don’t think it’s correct to suggest that PUs ceiling is somehow lower than what they have actually been doing. Forget their floor for a second. They have still shown that they can be a top ten team while fielding several different lineups (it hasn’t been just with the big Canadian).
@gerdis list off what they've accomplished without Edey. The Carson Edwards team went on a run because he went nuclear in the NCAA tournament. That's the only team in Painters 20 plus years that sniffed being "elite" come tournament time, without the services of Mount Canada. And before the Natty game run, they had a string of Epic march meltdowns, that exposed Painters program and system. And the year after the Natty game run, his team lost 6 out of 9 coming down the stretch.
Obviously he has every chance, and every possibility to change that narrative. And this year's team could be his best non Edey team. And I was for sure wrong on how far back I thought they'd fall without Edey. But... lets not forget their team, with quite a lot of the same guys they'll be relying on this year, did lose those 6 out 9 games in February/March. They had a solid NCAA tournament showing, as it was...and they do add some really good pieces this year. But losing 6 out of 9, in a down B10 conference...and not adding any good perimeter defenders... we'll see how it goes for them. I actually think, potentially, the biggest addition will be a healthy Jacobsen, and they're going to be platooning him with/behind TKR and Kluff.
Basically, they really haven't done much of anything of note, without Edey, on a national scale. So until they prove they can, their ceiling is B10 champ and Sweet 16 ish type team, that will ultimately lose to speed, talent and athleticism.
@gerdis list off what they've accomplished without Edey. The Carson Edwards team went on a run because he went nuclear in the NCAA tournament. That's the only team in Painters 20 plus years that sniffed being "elite" come tournament time, without the services of Mount Canada. And before the Natty game run, they had a string of Epic march meltdowns, that exposed Painters program and system. And the year after the Natty game run, his team lost 6 out of 9 coming down the stretch.
Obviously he has every chance, and every possibility to change that narrative. And this year's team could be his best non Edey team. And I was for sure wrong on how far back I thought they'd fall without Edey. But... lets not forget their team, with quite a lot of the same guys they'll be relying on this year, did lose those 6 out 9 games in February/March. They had a solid NCAA tournament showing, as it was...and they do add some really good pieces this year. But losing 6 out of 9, in a down B10 conference...and not adding any good perimeter defenders... we'll see how it goes for them. I actually think, potentially, the biggest addition will be a healthy Jacobsen, and they're going to be platooning him with/behind TKR and Kluff.
Basically, they really haven't done much of anything of note, without Edey, on a national scale. So until they prove they can, their ceiling is B10 champ and Sweet 16 ish type team, that will ultimately lose to speed, talent and athleticism.
They didn’t just “go nuclear” in the tournament they were a 3 seed.
2017 4 seed - sweet 16
2018 2 seed - sweet 16
2019 3 seed - elite 8
It feels weird defending them, especially with their history of getting peacocked or knocked around by St. Peter’s.
but, you cannot ignore their seedlings and how that will give them opportunities. They only have one seed worse than 4 over the last decade and that was a 5. Isn’t it reasonable to think any team that is getting top 4 seeds could potentially get to a FF?
@gerdis He went nuclear...they've had high seeds quite a lot in Painters era. I mentioned the 19 team, and their run. But that was because of Edwards heroics. The other two teams are Purdue's ceiling, as was last year's team.
To use your examples... the 18 team got thumped by a Texas Tech team largely led by a couple freshmen. Why they got thumped... they got physically manhandled. And then in 17, they got destroyed by Kansas. Both those teams were "midwest good". When they played teams with elite talent and athleticism, in March...they lost handily.
Take the Edey years away, and Purdue's resume isn't really much better than IU's since RMK.
@gerdis their seeding last year was ridiculous. The committee totally ignored how they yanked the end of the season. They did play surprisingly well against Oklahoma, but they were very beatable the last half of the conference. Even Purdue fans were stunned at their seed .
@tammany so, assuming you bail on friends/family if they've been divorced? Even though I thought he was the best realistic candidate, I at least understood those who didn't want Beard with his baggage. But, complaining about a divorce and personal actions, long past, that he may even regret? Non factor for most and I think that's how it should be.
@iunorth always funny to me when someone mentions that a teams best player, played out of his mind, like that somehow diminishes or erases what they accomplished. Wouldn't you say the Bulls have 6 titles because MJ went nuclear? And? They still have 6 titles. MP recruited, signed and developed Edwards, Edey and Smith so he gets full credit for what they accomplished with those guys.
@tammany so, assuming you bail on friends/family if they've been divorced? Even though I thought he was the best realistic candidate, I at least understood those who didn't want Beard with his baggage. But, complaining about a divorce and personal actions, long past, that he may even regret? Non factor for most and I think that's how it should be.
I’m just trashing our rival’s coach as a joke, it’s not serious. In reality I don’t know him or the circumstances around whatever happened.
The sad thing is, we're hoping IU can make a conference and national splash ... while it's almost a given Purdue will be in the mix (in the B1G, at least).
It pains me to say this, but Painter and his staff are elite at identifying and developing talent. Moreover, Painter et al. build rather than reset by having most guys stay multiple years. Sure, they haven't won a title, but Purdue is one of the most "stable" programs in the nation.
Side note: I threw up in my mouth typing this post.
Painter has certainly benefited and taken advantage from luck, coaching skill, timing, and getting his guys to be injury free.
Another terrible defensive team that finishes sixth in the B1G in '26 will leave a bad taste in the mouths of the most pro Painter nut gurgling of the Purdue fanbase.
To the original theme of this thread...good day for Ristic and Serbia today.
https://twitter.com/insidethehall/status/1944836116131057677?s=46&t=zWhR3GDfCaPDKo69_37f7Q
I will caution though...I don't think he plays much this season. If (and it's still an IF) Luke Goode is on the roster, I won't be surprised at all to see Ristic redshirt. He can help as a shooter but that's something IU should not need much of given the roster makeup. I do not think he is ready as a ball handler or defender for the speed and style of the Big Ten. Good sign that he continues to produce though!
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