@iugradman I'm not going to put the blame on Dolson.
He did hire Cig (there were still fans wanting to retain Allen for crying out loud).
He wanted no part of Woodson. He was forced to hire him. He was forced to retain him. If he had been allowed to do his job, he would have fired him after year 3 and hired May. Buckner prevented it and said May wasn't good enough for IU.
He's responsible for the current hire but we're also only 1/3 of the way through the first season of that. I'm also not convinced in the slightest that there were better options (not ones that ensure elite status, I don't care about marginally better if that turns out to be the case).
A little early to be blaming anybody. Step away from the ledge. It's not like Coach DD has lost to Ft Wayne. The Minnesota loss is bad but the season is still salvageable.
Yeah and I could theoretically win the Powerball Wednesday night with the 2 tickets I bought , but that shit ain't happening. Season is over, that roster says so. You can hope all you want , hope is a dangerous thing. I've had hope for 25 years and it's burned me 25 times. They had me with Davis and then Sampson, then even with Crean despite the penalty. Each actually brought some results that made one think so. Last 3 coaches thus far not at all. They are uninspiring. DD was a safe hire. Clean guy no issues but to me not a proven enough track record. Yeah I know he did some good at Drake... but it wasn't that great.
Did we hit the jackpot with Cig for sure but he's 20 years older than DD , approximately, and that wisdom likely makes a difference.
He nor this roster nor the next one he puts together next year is going to be good enough.
Sorry it was a bad hire as much as anyone wants to argue against it.
Regardless, it's bad timing for DeVries, because Cig and Clark Lea (Vanderbilt) and Pat Kelsey and Dusty May did it overnight. And while it's unreasonable to expect that from every new coach - some of us have been watching this clusterfuck for 30 years and the refrain has mostly been the same no matter the circumstances: just wait for next year when we have time to address [insert list of never ending issues here]. Fair or not, reasonable or not, watching what Coach Cignetti and the football team have done while the basketball program meekly serves up a rerun of the past 30 years despite a new coach is seriously off-putting, especially when I add in not only the failure of Mike Woodson, but the politics that kept that failure in place for two years too long. This all coming on the heels of what was already 25 years of abject failure, mind you. To see us with a mid-major roster is frustrating. To see that mid-major roster not even show up in half our games is infuriating. To know everything that led us here, to this exact point in time, and see essentially the same old same old is the worst of all, and what should be front and center on Scott Dolson and Pam Whitmer's minds: disgust morphing into apathy. I can say I'm going to fight through what I already knew coming into the season, but the reality is I can't lie to myself. I don't particularly want to.
This ^^^^
I'm tired of being told this bag of shit and the peanuts in the shit are just Dubai Chocolate... the spin tactics to sell this new and improved team whether it's with a new coach or an old one. It's crap. It's been crap for 9 years now. There were some moments with Crean that were promising. But we haven't sniffed anything near that in over a decade. There's no patience left
@arioznahoosier4554 Long season, we'll see if guys like Harris and/or Ritsic break in to the rotation, at some point. Either because they're good enough, or out of necessity. But as of now, yep... looking like he's gonna have to get 4-5 high major starter level guys via the portal. But starting with Sisley, Dorn, Miles, Harris, Ritsic... is a better start than he had coming in. No reason to believe he won't be able to land an equally talented, if not better roster for next year. And he'll have the advantage of intimately knowing the exact types of kids he'll need to better compete against the B10.
Hopefully he figures some things out this year, and makes the NCAA's, so he can build a little more excitement, and maybe get a little more NIL backing.
that's if they come back. Putrid results and money people make moves
@iugradman I'm not going to put the blame on Dolson.
He did hire Cig (there were still fans wanting to retain Allen for crying out loud).
He wanted no part of Woodson. He was forced to hire him. He was forced to retain him. If he had been allowed to do his job, he would have fired him after year 3 and hired May. Buckner prevented it and said May wasn't good enough for IU.
He's responsible for the current hire but we're also only 1/3 of the way through the first season of that. I'm also not convinced in the slightest that there were better options (not ones that ensure elite status, I don't care about marginally better if that turns out to be the case).
A little early to be blaming anybody. Step away from the ledge. It's not like Coach DD has lost to Ft Wayne. The Minnesota loss is bad but the season is still salvageable.
It is close to ft Wayne Woody didn’t lose to anyone ranked as bad Minny in his entire tenure…
Of course a few will leave that is the nature of the portal now. We have at least three guys leaving every year now and I suspect he will once again have to bring in 6-8 brand new guys. And even if they do come back the guys mentioned have not played or barely played. We will be returning very low point productions at best. I honestly dont see how he wil get anymore NIL if he misses the tourney this year it will all go to football. All the chumps Quinn got to fork over big bucks to Woodson I think closed their wallets for bbal now.@arioznahoosier4554 Long season, we'll see if guys like Harris and/or Ritsic break in to the rotation, at some point. Either because they're good enough, or out of necessity. But as of now, yep... looking like he's gonna have to get 4-5 high major starter level guys via the portal. But starting with Sisley, Dorn, Miles, Harris, Ritsic... is a better start than he had coming in. No reason to believe he won't be able to land an equally talented, if not better roster for next year. And he'll have the advantage of intimately knowing the exact types of kids he'll need to better compete against the B10.
Hopefully he figures some things out this year, and makes the NCAA's, so he can build a little more excitement, and maybe get a little more NIL backing.
that's if they come back. Putrid results and money people make moves
Of course a few will leave that is the nature of the portal now. We have at least three guys leaving every year now and I suspect he will once again have to bring in 6-8 brand new guys. And even if they do come back the guys mentioned have not played or barely played. We will be returning very low point productions at best. I honestly dont see how he wil get anymore NIL if he misses the tourney this year it will all go to football. All the chumps Quinn got to fork over big bucks to Woodson I think closed their wallets for bbal now.@arioznahoosier4554 Long season, we'll see if guys like Harris and/or Ritsic break in to the rotation, at some point. Either because they're good enough, or out of necessity. But as of now, yep... looking like he's gonna have to get 4-5 high major starter level guys via the portal. But starting with Sisley, Dorn, Miles, Harris, Ritsic... is a better start than he had coming in. No reason to believe he won't be able to land an equally talented, if not better roster for next year. And he'll have the advantage of intimately knowing the exact types of kids he'll need to better compete against the B10.
Hopefully he figures some things out this year, and makes the NCAA's, so he can build a little more excitement, and maybe get a little more NIL backing.
that's if they come back. Putrid results and money people make moves
well see that's the problem. Wallets have been closed. And he won't get them open. So we need a proven coach with charisma who can pry those wallets back open. Find him pay him what you need to and let's get back to prominence
@iugradman I'm not going to put the blame on Dolson.
He did hire Cig (there were still fans wanting to retain Allen for crying out loud).
He wanted no part of Woodson. He was forced to hire him. He was forced to retain him. If he had been allowed to do his job, he would have fired him after year 3 and hired May. Buckner prevented it and said May wasn't good enough for IU.
He's responsible for the current hire but we're also only 1/3 of the way through the first season of that. I'm also not convinced in the slightest that there were better options (not ones that ensure elite status, I don't care about marginally better if that turns out to be the case).
A little early to be blaming anybody. Step away from the ledge. It's not like Coach DD has lost to Ft Wayne. The Minnesota loss is bad but the season is still salvageable.
It is close to ft Wayne Woody didn’t lose to anyone ranked as bad Minny in his entire tenure…
Penn St, Nebraska, and Rutgers all have a recent history of being in the bottom of the B1G and Woody lost to them. A big difference between FW and any P4 team. Especially when they have a guy that can put up 40. Minnesota will end up with a ranking about 100. Not good, but not a 'bad loss' as far as the selection committee is concerned. A new coach with all new players that haven't experienced a B1G road game. Not shocking. Our realistic expectation should be to compete for a NCAA tournament birth and improve from there. I'd like it to be more but that's probably not realistic. As sad as it is to say, he's not Dusty May.
@hoosiers94 easier said than done. May is gone for good. Nobody would have been thrilled with a Kelsey/Pope hire here either. I'm not so sure there's a "proven" commodity out there that would also actually come here and instantly succeed in year 1.
Better chance that Buckner destroyed the program fully with his stupidity and selfishness.
@hoosiers94 easier said than done. May is gone for good. Nobody would have been thrilled with a Kelsey/Pope hire here either. I'm not so sure there's a "proven" commodity out there that would also actually come here and instantly succeed in year 1.
Better chance that Buckner destroyed the program fully with his stupidity and selfishness.
One thing is certain Quinn was not thinking about he long term future of the program because he may have finally ruined it for good. May would certainly have come here year ago but its almost like IU goes out of its way to screw up hires on purpose. DD may end up being an ok coach but he could also end up being a bust. Thats great what he did at Drake but he only had one year of P5 experience we can look at. No different really than archie at dayton.
I mean since per quinn you get four years are we now stuck with DD for four years even if he tanks the first two years.
@hoosiers94 easier said than done. May is gone for good. Nobody would have been thrilled with a Kelsey/Pope hire here either. I'm not so sure there's a "proven" commodity out there that would also actually come here and instantly succeed in year 1.
Better chance that Buckner destroyed the program fully with his stupidity and selfishness.
I can say this without certainty but I do know him quite well but I'd bet if you paid Scott Drew 9m per year and a top 10 NIL he would leave Baylor
they never made the call he turned down Kentucky because he doesn't like Kentucky Indiana is home... book it
@hoosiers94 easier said than done. May is gone for good. Nobody would have been thrilled with a Kelsey/Pope hire here either. I'm not so sure there's a "proven" commodity out there that would also actually come here and instantly succeed in year 1.
Better chance that Buckner destroyed the program fully with his stupidity and selfishness.
Or you find someone who has different wallets to tap than who we traditionally tap from.
@hoosiers94 DeVries beat Drew a little over a month ago, in his first season at IU, with the dumpster fire of a team you hate so much. Now, it was just a scrimmage, and Woodson beat Tennessee last year, so there's that perspective to add to it. But using Drew as some sort of example of a sure fire hire, isn't a good one. It would take Drew multiple years to get Indiana any better than we are now, I'm sure.
completely agree.. if these kids can move annually. We can move our coach annually. Hell DD left WV after only one year. I have no problem with that. Doesn't work it doesn't work should not mean he's given 3-4 years out of politeness. That went out with disco
@arioznahoosier4554 There's no question now, that IU fumbled the Dusty May opportunity. To be honest and fair, I was pretty openly mixed on my views of May, back then, and even when we were discussing this past hire. Up until this season, he was giving off eerily similar Crean vibes, to me. He took a team to a final four, but then didn't sustain that success the next year at FAU. His first few teams there were pretty average. His teams, even through last season, were prone to epic collapses during games. But its obvious now that he would have been a monster at IU. I don't know if he would have had more success recruiting, or not, at IU... but I can't think of any reason why it would have been any worse. I feel pretty confident that he's up there with Brad Stevens levels of missed opportunities for IU basketball. I hope if there are any guys like that, in the next couple years, and CDD is in any way floundering, that he/they will take it more seriously and just make it all happen.
Now... CDD... the good basketball that we have seen a decent amount of this year, if it ends up becoming more consistently how we play... THAT is going to be very successful, and very fun to follow. And I suspect, will help him garner NIL support, and will help him attract NBA level talent, sooner, rather than later. The multiple millions of dollars question, however... how long of a leash does he have to get that going? We can do a lot worse, I suspect he's one of the better coaches we've had. But right now, watching May do what he's doing, its hard to be patient enough to give him a chance to grow the program.