Even for civil cases? Can anybody use the 8th to attack excessive punitive damages? I don’t think so.
im not convinced. There is plenty of law to toss excessive judgments without touching the 8th amendment. I think the 8th requires an underlying offense.
Told ya. Told ya.
https://twitter.com/jsolomonReports/status/1958545907407790557?t=LDaZEY5QJmczXRQdkPSDLg&s=19
Never a doubt.
https://twitter.com/autismcapital/status/1917365555788669267?s=46
Yes, you can use the 8th for excessive civil fines.Even for civil cases? Can anybody use the 8th to attack excessive punitive damages? I don’t think so.
A damage award is not a fine. But there are constitutional limitations on damage awards, too.Even for civil cases? Can anybody use the 8th to attack excessive punitive damages? I don’t think so.
Aren't puni’s actually a fine?
As far as this case is concerned, there is no damage, so any award is a fine. This gets back what I argued before, a loss is an element of actionable fraud and there are no losses here.
We’ve been over this. You’re referring to common law fraud. Trump was sued under a statute that didn’t require a loss as you are using the word. It’s an issue of statutory construction in NY.Aren't puni’s actually a fine?
As far as this case is concerned, there is no damage, so any award is a fine. This gets back what I argued before, a loss is an element of actionable fraud and there are no losses here.
Read the opinion.
I will. Did the court comment on the proper measure of damages when there is no loss?
If the statute is interpreted to allow a civil award of damage for conduct without actual public or private loss or damage, I think the better argument would be takings. Did trump argue that?
If the legislature wants to punish conduct only, I’d also argue that must be criminal, not civil.
So, to be clear, the court didn't toss the case, right? Just the award?
People decry the way Trump politicizes the system but this is a reminder that there just as egregious examples before him.
Those theories won’t work. It’s not a taking under the case law. That might be a sanctionable argument.I will. Did the court comment on the proper measure of damages when there is no loss?
If the statute is interpreted to allow a civil award of damage for conduct without actual public or private loss or damage, I think the better argument would be takings. Did trump argue that?
If the legislature wants to punish conduct only, I’d also argue that must be criminal, not civil.
Speeding tix are typically civil violations, and that punish “conduct only.”
NYApp got the excessive fine part right.
That would be a reasonable request on remand.So, to be clear, the court didn’t toss the case, right? Just the award?
NYApp got the excessive fine part right.
So if the beef is the "fine" was excessive, why throw it out entirely instead of just reducing it (or ordering a new calculation)?
This isn't over. Still has to go to NY SCT, which they weirdly call the Court of Appeals. NY law is screwy.
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