@goat Some MAGA nativists don’t like being called MAGA nativists while others embrace it. We have both here.
Traditional Republicans like me want no illegal immigration and want responsibly regulated legal immigration. The country needs legal immigration first it’s positive contributions and because our birth rates can’t sustain our economy and necessary government programs.
but I've already made the case that MAGA is an essentially nativist movement,
I think that is flat dead wrong. Making America Great Again is not about native people, instead it’s about preserving individuality, and established culture, traditions, customs, habits, routines etc. MAGA would oppose those who want to destroy or eliminate those whether native or foreign.
@co-hoosier which can be the manifestations and goals of a nativist movement. Whether you consider it a positive or a negative is up to you
True. Nativism and established culture has commonalities, but even some nativists want to change or destroy culture(men in women’s sports). I think saying MAGA are nativists misses the point.
I've already made the case that MAGA is an essentially nativist movement,
At this point it would be hard to argue otherwise.
Kind of interesting that so many would deny the obvious rather than defend it. The know-nothings weren't so timid. They knew what they stood for, and they did it publicly. Don't see why MAGA can't do the same.
Kind of interesting that so many would deny the obvious rather than defend it.
I deny your description of the obvious.
Carry on.
Making America Great Again is ... about preserving individuality, and established culture, traditions, customs, habits, routines etc.
There is an element to it, though, specifically relating to preserving WHITE MALE CHRISTIAN culture, traditions, customs, habits, routines etc. and also minimizing or even completely ignoring historical misdeeds of white Christian males before us. Persons who often staunchly opposed abolition, supported the systematic slaughter of Native Americans, opposed women's suffrage, desegregation, civil rights legislation, etc.
History does not need to be whitewashed. We can revere our heritage while also recognizing miss-steps and misdeeds.
"You can't make someone listen to reason if they aren't willing to think"-- Ray Bradbury, Fahrenheit 451
History does not need to be whitewashed. We can revere our heritage while also recognizing miss-steps and misdeeds.
The enduring virtue and morality of our system of government, the unmistakable expansion of suffrage and the ongoing march towards equal rights deserves recognition and unqualified support. History of those who opposed such things, and failed in their opposition, is an irrelevant side-show.
We can cherish the unmistakable expansion of suffrage and the ongoing march towards equal rights and also acknowledge the basic fact that often such advances were hard-fought battles that were won over strong opposition. That isn't "qualifying" the reverence. It's simply not sticking your head in the sand and makes you better appreciate what has been accomplished.
"You can't make someone listen to reason if they aren't willing to think"-- Ray Bradbury, Fahrenheit 451
I wish it were intended to better appreciate what we have. But the purveyors of negative history through such things as the concept of our “original sin” use it as a political cudgel in today’s politics for the sole purpose of mobilizing political support of minorities.
Biden’s tirade that we have never lived up to the Dclaration of Independence is an insult to all who have busted their asses to do just that.
As an analogy, I cherish IU's national championship in football. Giving attention to the fact that we suffered decades of futility is not conducting an irrelevant sideshow. It provides context and deepens the appreciation for having achieved what we have now (finally) achieved.
Keep history alive. It need not be cleansed for greater palatability.
"You can't make someone listen to reason if they aren't willing to think"-- Ray Bradbury, Fahrenheit 451
Sure, we are cutting down on illegals, but we are also cutting down on legals.
To me, this is one of the more complex topics that is often oversimplified. There are positives to immigration, but also negatives. The lack of realization and willingness to address those is why you've seen a backlash across the developed world (Europe is trending similarly).
Biden’s tirade that we have never lived up to the Declaration of Independence is an insult to all who have busted their asses to do just that.
I think Biden was awful, but now you are whitewashing what Biden even said.
He said that we as a Nation have never FULLY lived up to the Declaration of Independence's promise that all men are created equal, with rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness, but also that we have never walked away from the goal making that promise a reality. That Americans must continue to work to make our nation more fair and just.
I cannot imagine how that actual statement would offend you.
It even echoes the words of Abraham Lincoln, who famously viewed the Declaration as a moral standard that we should constantly aim to meet, recognizing in his day that it was certainly not perfectly attained, but arguing that it provided (his exact words) "hope to the world for all future time".
"You can't make someone listen to reason if they aren't willing to think"-- Ray Bradbury, Fahrenheit 451
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