We've sold military weapons, training and services to the Arab countries for decades. One of the last countries where I traveled to do Security Cooperation training of military officers as a military officer (retired in 2012) was the UAE (also did Afghanistan and Iraq just before that in 2011). We have had about 900 Saudi military in training in the US on any given day for over 30 years. That's the most from any country on any given day - even more than any of our treaty allies. Business in the middle east and the relationships that come with it has been good for a long time.I think more than anything the fact that Trump is so much more friendly to the Gulf than any American President before him works in our favor in turning the entire ME against Iran.
I do think that's a valid point. For whatever reason, Trump has somehow cobbled together a pretty solid relationship with the Arab governments. Maybe not the Arab world writ large, but at least the leaders. That should continue to pay occasional dividends for years.
That said, I don't think the Arabs needed much pushing to turn against Iran. They don't like the Persians. They don't like the Kurds. They don't like the Shia (excepting Iraq, of course). And they certainly don't trust any of them. Lesser of many evils, most of them would probably prefer the Saudis or Egyptians as hegemons over the Iranians. So credit Trump for shoring up a shaky alliance, but I don't think he really needed to convince them of how dangerous Iran was.
Like virtually everything with Trump, money is the driver. Arab countries have purchased large quantities of American military equipment. They’ve invested huge sums in many sectors of the US economy, and they’ve made Trump and his family much richer.
Arab countries like that Trump gives them a pass on human rights issues. Trump, in turn, likes dealing with authoritarian strongmen like MBS because those leaders don’t have to deal with pesky institutions like parliaments or independent judiciaries. Makes for easy deals and quick results.
Historical Sales Book FY 2023 - Final.pdf
Some reading for those interested:
Donald Trump says Tulsi Gabbard 'a little bit softer' on Iran obtaining nuclear weapon
Al Jazeera’s full interview with Marco Rubio on US war on Iran | US-Israel war on Iran | Al Jazeera
Trump interested in calling on Arab states to help pay for Iran war, White House says
Gulf allies privately make the case to Trump to keep fighting Iran | AP News
Thousands of US Army paratroopers arrive in Middle East as buildup intensifies
Limited missions, big risks: What a US ground fight in Iran could become
Trump Faces a Decision on Whether to Start a Ground War in Iran - The New York Times
Gas prices soar past $4 on average for a gallon of regular in US, highest since 2022 - ABC News
Long, but good: The Real War for Iran’s Future | Foreign Affairs
I don't think that's the only difference you can think of and we both know where the "puppet" language originates. It's one of the oldest conspiracy theories in the world.Will the same people who claim Trump is a puppet of Israel now say he is a puppet of these states?"The UAE has emerged as perhaps the most hawkish of the Gulf countries and is pushing hard for Trump to order a ground invasion, the diplomat said. Kuwait and Bahrain also favor this option."
https://apnews.com/article/trump-iran-saudi-arabia-mbs-gulf-war-uae-89f690b952fe28d3140c537b70fa5051
If not, I wonder what could possibly be the difference?
Well, no, they won't, because the people who distrust AIPAC and the people who distrust CAIR, et al. are not the same people.
And the difference is that AIPAC spends about 100x what Arab/Muslim lobbyists spend on American politics.
Obviously, antisemitism underscores a lot of the criticism of US support for Israel, but it's very possible to view American politics and come to the conclusion there is enough Israeli influence to change American political behavior. You can't reasonably make the same argument about the Arab world. Maybe with a small handful of individual politicians, but not enough to steer foreign policy.
Any relationship we have with the Arabs is necessarily transactional, whereas with the Israelis other explanations are plausible.
This kidnapping in Baghdad related to the war with Iran? I think it's a decent bet that it is.
US journalist kidnapped in Baghdad and security forces hunt captors, Iraqi officials say
We've sold military weapons, training and services to the Arab countries for decades.
I remember the uproar when we sold the Saudis a few AWACS and Tankers in the 80s.
Hope is not optimism, which expects things to turn out well, but something rooted in the conviction that there is good worth working for. - Seamus Heaney, Irish poet and likely Hoosier basketball fan.
POTFB
And the difference is that AIPAC spends about 100x what Arab/Muslim lobbyists spend on American politics.
Doesn't it depend on what you count as lobbying and who you include? CAIR may not, but how about the foreign governments? Saudis and Qataris have contributed significant funds to political interests in recent years.
We've sold military weapons, training and services to the Arab countries for decades.
I remember the uproar when we sold the Saudis a few AWACS and Tankers in the 80s.
Well, why shouldn't there be uproar? Look at the shitbags that come out of that country (see 9/11, ISIS, etc.). I do agree that the people in power right now in Saudi Arabia, Qatar, etc. (royals) want peace and stability, as it is bad for business. But, Islamists are part of the problem and have been for decades.
I can't think of one President that hasn't given Arab oil countries some kind of "pass on human rights issues."Arab countries like that Trump gives them a pass on human rights issues.
Re MBS, for example:
MBS, by the way, is a complicated figure:
https://www.econtalk.org/the-man-who-would-be-king-of-saudi-arabia-with-karen-elliott-house/
“Some kind of pass?” Pretty broad language there. There are “passes” and then there are “PASSES” - - bigly; like nobody’s ever seen before.
But let’s get serious. Which US president has defended (and even praised) leaders (Putin, Kim Jong Un, etc.) with documented histories of heinous human rights violations? You know who. Given the current discussion, I’ll provide a few examples related to Arab leaders. It’s a serious topic but let’s have some fun with it. You’ll need to guess the US president in question. I predict you’ll get a perfect score but no cheating; it's the honor system.
Which US president gave a NATO-like security guarantee to an Arab nation that supports Hamas and that “has historically been a funder of terrorism at a very high level?” Trump! And the kicker is that, prior to granting the security guarantee, Trump uttered the language in quotes.
Which US president shielded an Arab leader from responsibility (after US intelligence concluded he was responsible) for the torture, murder and dismemberment of a dissident journalist, dismissing intelligence findings and prioritizing arms sales to the Arab country? Trump! And there’s more to the story. First, the related intelligence (and accompanying report) was done during the first Trump administration, but the report was not released. The Trump administration withheld the report despite a congressional mandate. It was released after Biden became president. And here’s what Trump said about the victim: “You're mentioning someone that was extremely controversial. A lot of people didn't like that gentleman that you're talking about. Whether you like him or didn't like him, things happen.” Ho-hum. People sometimes get dismembered with a bone saw. But the guy who authorized the killing? Trump has praised him for his record on . . . wait for it . . . “human rights and everything else.”
In addition, which presidential administration has downscaled the State Department’s annual human rights report, particularly as it relates to countries in the Middle East, by omitting or blunting language on political prisoners, torture and restrictions on civil society? Trump’s administration! After all, it’s harder to make deals (and increase your personal wealth) with countries after calling them out for human rights abuses.
These examples are “Passes” with a capital “P.” As usual, Trump takes things to an entirely new, low level.
We've sold military weapons, training and services to the Arab countries for decades.
I remember the uproar when we sold the Saudis a few AWACS and Tankers in the 80s.
Well, why shouldn't there be uproar? Look at the shitbags that come out of that country (see 9/11, ISIS, etc.). I do agree that the people in power right now in Saudi Arabia, Qatar, etc. (royals) want peace and stability, as it is bad for business. But, Islamists are part of the problem and have been for decades.
I wasn't passing judgement as to whether it was good or bad. I'm just saying we've been selling weapons to middle eastern countries since I was a kid.
Hope is not optimism, which expects things to turn out well, but something rooted in the conviction that there is good worth working for. - Seamus Heaney, Irish poet and likely Hoosier basketball fan.
POTFB
We've sold them much more than AWACS and tankers since the 80s. They're very big customers. The first Trump administration initiated a $350 billion plus arms deal with them in 2017. It's continued through the Biden administration and the current Trump administration. I'd say the military training we have done for them over the last 30 years has moderated a large number of influential Saudis. I was involved in some of that.We've sold military weapons, training and services to the Arab countries for decades.
I remember the uproar when we sold the Saudis a few AWACS and Tankers in the 80s.
Well, why shouldn't there be uproar? Look at the shitbags that come out of that country (see 9/11, ISIS, etc.). I do agree that the people in power right now in Saudi Arabia, Qatar, etc. (royals) want peace and stability, as it is bad for business. But, Islamists are part of the problem and have been for decades.
if that same homeless guy called the FBI and claimed Trump and Epstein raped him, it would go in the files.
Allegations are not proof of anything. At least not in this country.
Your hatred of Trump allows you to lend credence to anything negative you hear about him.
So if the homeless guy called the FBI and claimed Trump and Epstein raped him, would they go to the trouble of interviewing him, even once? Would they then go to the trouble of interviewing him AGAIN? Would they then go to the trouble of interviewing him A THIRD TIME? Would they then go to the trouble of interviewing him A FOURTH TIME?
That's what we have with the girl who said Trump raped her.
One would think that after one interview (or none), the FBI would have concluded that the person was as nutty as your homeless guy at Walgreens. But apparently something there was credible enough to dig some more Then some more. THEN SOME MORE.
Maybe it fit the profile of the 30+ other people who have accused Trump of sexual misconduct, usually to the extreme detriment to their livelihood.
Hmmm...
"You can't make someone listen to reason if they aren't willing to think"-- Ray Bradbury, Fahrenheit 451
I think more than anything the fact that Trump is so much more friendly to the Gulf than any American President before him works in our favor in turning the entire ME against Iran.
I do think that's a valid point. For whatever reason, Trump has somehow cobbled together a pretty solid relationship with the Arab governments. Maybe not the Arab world writ large, but at least the leaders. That should continue to pay occasional dividends for years.
That said, I don't think the Arabs needed much pushing to turn against Iran. They don't like the Persians. They don't like the Kurds. They don't like the Shia (excepting Iraq, of course). And they certainly don't trust any of them. Lesser of many evils, most of them would probably prefer the Saudis or Egyptians as hegemons over the Iranians. So credit Trump for shoring up a shaky alliance, but I don't think he really needed to convince them of how dangerous Iran was.
Like virtually everything with Trump, money is the driver. Arab countries have purchased large quantities of American military equipment. They’ve invested huge sums in many sectors of the US economy, and they’ve made Trump and his family much richer.
Arab countries like that Trump gives them a pass on human rights issues. Trump, in turn, likes dealing with authoritarian strongmen like MBS because those leaders don’t have to deal with pesky institutions like parliaments or independent judiciaries. Makes for easy deals and quick results.
Has America benefitted from those deals?
Latest Post: Iran War Has Started Our newest member: Steven Ross Recent Posts Unread Posts
