I’d be a little more judicious with the word “necessary.” Because if it’s not necessary for the refinement of YOUR soul (i.e., you’re not facing the same suffering), then it’s not necessary for the refinement of the infant dying painfully from a genetic disorder before they’ve formed even a minimum level of awareness.
My brother, I believe in and trust our Father's plan for all people. I know that he has a purpose for everything that happens, especially and including the suffering of an infant. Being a faithful follower of God means putting our faith and trust in him and living our daily lives in a manner pleasing to him and that is what I strive to do.
Proverbs 3:5-6
5 Trust in the Lord with all your heart,
and do not lean on your own understanding.
6 In all your ways acknowledge him,
and he will make straight your paths.
And that, folks, is how you justify the suffering of innocents. Lovely.
Again, as long as it makes you feel better about your life, cool I guess. Although I think justifying the suffering of innocents as a good thing is immoral.
I just wish the fundies weren’t always trying to shove their immoral lifestyle in our faces.
I’d be a little more judicious with the word “necessary.” Because if it’s not necessary for the refinement of YOUR soul (i.e., you’re not facing the same suffering), then it’s not necessary for the refinement of the infant dying painfully from a genetic disorder before they’ve formed even a minimum level of awareness.
My brother, I believe in and trust our Father's plan for all people. I know that he has a purpose for everything that happens, especially and including the suffering of an infant. Being a faithful follower of God means putting our faith and trust in him and living our daily lives in a manner pleasing to him and that is what I strive to do.
Proverbs 3:5-6
5 Trust in the Lord with all your heart,
and do not lean on your own understanding.
6 In all your ways acknowledge him,
and he will make straight your paths.
And that, folks, is how you justify the suffering of innocents. Lovely.
Again, as long as it makes you feel better about your life, cool I guess. Although I think justifying the suffering of innocents as a good thing is immoral.
I just wish the fundies weren’t always trying to shove their immoral lifestyle in our faces.
He smoked you out. What is innocent? What is immoral? Why does the GOD TFMT get to decide those things? Do I have to worship you or can it be Cignetti? For the record I choose Cignetti if you will allow it.
He smoked you out. What is innocent? What is immoral? Why does the GOD TFMT get to decide those things? Do I have to worship you or can it be Cignetti? For the record I choose Cignetti if you will allow it.
Easy.
innocent: free from wrong, guiltless. I.e., an infant is innocent. You are free to agree or disagree.
immoral: whatever doesn’t comport with one’s moral framework. For me, causing the unnecessary suffering of innocents is immoral.
I didn’t invent these definitions, but I think they’re pretty common. Do you use different definitions?
He smoked you out. What is innocent? What is immoral? Why does the GOD TFMT get to decide those things? Do I have to worship you or can it be Cignetti? For the record I choose Cignetti if you will allow it.
Easy.
innocent: free from wrong, guiltless. I.e., an infant is innocent. You are free to agree or disagree.
immoral: whatever doesn’t comport with one’s moral framework. For me, causing the unnecessary suffering of innocents is immoral.
I didn’t invent these definitions, but I think they’re pretty common. Do you use different definitions?
You have to establish truths in order to have morality. Did the God TMFT establish them? Or was it some wise man prior to you? Please do tell.
I reject your claim that you have to establish truths to have morality. Care to justify that claim?
I reject your claim that you have to establish truths to have morality. Care to justify that claim?
This isn't about me. You made the claims. I'm trying to understand where they came from. Are you saying morality is subjective then?
I reject your claim that you have to establish truths to have morality. Care to justify that claim?
This isn't about me. You made the claims. I'm trying to understand where they came from. Are you saying morality is subjective then?
you absolutely made a claim that truths have to be established to have morality. That goes beyond questioning my claims. You need to justify that particular position.
yes, morality is subjective.
I reject your claim that you have to establish truths to have morality. Care to justify that claim?
This isn't about me. You made the claims. I'm trying to understand where they came from. Are you saying morality is subjective then?
you absolutely made a claim that truths have to be established to have morality. That goes beyond questioning my claims. You need to justify that particular position.
yes, morality is subjective.
Thanks for answering. If morality is subjective I don't care about it as a concept then. It's no different than if you like IU or PU. On second thought....maybe there is truth.
You already disagree with my position. God does.
I’d be a little more judicious with the word “necessary.” Because if it’s not necessary for the refinement of YOUR soul (i.e., you’re not facing the same suffering), then it’s not necessary for the refinement of the infant dying painfully from a genetic disorder before they’ve formed even a minimum level of awareness.
My brother, I believe in and trust our Father's plan for all people. I know that he has a purpose for everything that happens, especially and including the suffering of an infant. Being a faithful follower of God means putting our faith and trust in him and living our daily lives in a manner pleasing to him and that is what I strive to do.
Proverbs 3:5-6
5 Trust in the Lord with all your heart,
and do not lean on your own understanding.
6 In all your ways acknowledge him,
and he will make straight your paths.
And that, folks, is how you justify the suffering of innocents. Lovely.
Again, as long as it makes you feel better about your life, cool I guess. Although I think justifying the suffering of innocents as a good thing is immoral.
I just wish the fundies weren’t always trying to shove their immoral lifestyle in our faces.
He smoked you out. What is innocent? What is immoral? Why does the GOD TFMT get to decide those things? Do I have to worship you or can it be Cignetti? For the record I choose Cignetti if you will allow it.
They've literally been defined by example in this thread already
I know that he has a purpose for everything that happens, especially and including the suffering of an infant.
Let's drill in on this. What is the plan? How is the innocent infant, who has done nothing right or wrong, able to partake in divinity or any other form of salvation?
I’d be a little more judicious with the word “necessary.” Because if it’s not necessary for the refinement of YOUR soul (i.e., you’re not facing the same suffering), then it’s not necessary for the refinement of the infant dying painfully from a genetic disorder before they’ve formed even a minimum level of awareness.
My brother, I believe in and trust our Father's plan for all people. I know that he has a purpose for everything that happens, especially and including the suffering of an infant. Being a faithful follower of God means putting our faith and trust in him and living our daily lives in a manner pleasing to him and that is what I strive to do.
Proverbs 3:5-6
5 Trust in the Lord with all your heart,
and do not lean on your own understanding.
6 In all your ways acknowledge him,
and he will make straight your paths.
And that, folks, is how you justify the suffering of innocents. Lovely.
Again, as long as it makes you feel better about your life, cool I guess. Although I think justifying the suffering of innocents as a good thing is immoral.
I just wish the fundies weren’t always trying to shove their immoral lifestyle in our faces.
He smoked you out. What is innocent? What is immoral? Why does the GOD TFMT get to decide those things? Do I have to worship you or can it be Cignetti? For the record I choose Cignetti if you will allow it.
They've literally been defined by example in this thread already
He just listed a bunch of words describing another word that some humans came up with a while back. It didn't answer my question.
I reject your claim that you have to establish truths to have morality. Care to justify that claim?
This isn't about me. You made the claims. I'm trying to understand where they came from. Are you saying morality is subjective then?
you absolutely made a claim that truths have to be established to have morality. That goes beyond questioning my claims. You need to justify that particular position.
yes, morality is subjective.
Thanks for answering. If morality is subjective I don't care about it as a concept then. It's no different than if you like IU or PU. On second thought....maybe there is truth.
You already disagree with my position. God does.
It raises an interesting question though based on the original comment. Using your moral system (objective or subjective), is the unnecessary suffering of innocents justified or moral?
I reject your claim that you have to establish truths to have morality. Care to justify that claim?
This isn't about me. You made the claims. I'm trying to understand where they came from. Are you saying morality is subjective then?
you absolutely made a claim that truths have to be established to have morality. That goes beyond questioning my claims. You need to justify that particular position.
yes, morality is subjective.
Thanks for answering. If morality is subjective I don't care about it as a concept then. It's no different than if you like IU or PU. On second thought....maybe there is truth.
You already disagree with my position. God does.
It raises an interesting question though based on the original comment. Using your moral system (objective or subjective), is the unnecessary suffering of innocents justified or moral?
I disagree with the premise. God allows free will and humans are flawed. We're the cause of suffering, not God. Even asking the question should give insights to how self centered we all are. I'm including myself in that as well. I'm no better than anyone else. God will use our suffering for his glory, though.
I reject your claim that you have to establish truths to have morality. Care to justify that claim?
This isn't about me. You made the claims. I'm trying to understand where they came from. Are you saying morality is subjective then?
you absolutely made a claim that truths have to be established to have morality. That goes beyond questioning my claims. You need to justify that particular position.
yes, morality is subjective.
Thanks for answering. If morality is subjective I don't care about it as a concept then. It's no different than if you like IU or PU. On second thought....maybe there is truth.
You already disagree with my position. God does.
It raises an interesting question though based on the original comment. Using your moral system (objective or subjective), is the unnecessary suffering of innocents justified or moral?
I disagree with the premise. God allows free will and humans are flawed. We're the cause of suffering, not God. Even asking the question should give insights to how self centered we all are. I'm including myself in that as well. I'm no better than anyone else. God will use our suffering for his glory, though.
I always heard that kind of thing growing up but it never made much sense to me.
The hypothetical infant didn’t exercise free will to suffer a consequence.
If they suffer because of someone else’s free choice then it’s not a just result (“just” meaning a fair consequence of one’s actions).
If the suffering is caused by a god’s curse on humanity for some ancient crime, then (1) it is still not just in my opinion to punish people for something they did not do and (2) the curse is a conscious choice freely made by the god. And to the extent that man is the “cause” for committing the crime, the god is the “cause” because it chose the punishment. And if the god could have chosen a punishment that did not require unnecessary suffering but still chose to anyway, then that is not a good look for that god’s goodness.
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