An older article. Maybe it was discussed previously on the WC.
https://www.theamericanconservative.com/five-worst-foreign-policy-presidents-in-american-history/
I think Bush's mistakes might go down as the worst or most consequential. The silver lining, here, though is that the US recovered from Truman and LBJ, so hopefully we'll eventually recover from the Iraq fiasco as well.
An older article. Maybe it was discussed previously on the WC.
https://www.theamericanconservative.com/five-worst-foreign-policy-presidents-in-american-history/
I think Bush's mistakes might go down as the worst or most consequential. The silver lining, here, though is that the US recovered from Truman and LBJ, so hopefully we'll eventually recover from the Iraq fiasco as well.
Didn't read the article but Woodrow Wilson is likely the worst President we've ever had. He has to be on the list.
I completely disagree with Truman being on this list. In fact, it could be argued for him to be on a 5 best list. I don’t have time to elaborate right now, but we’ll revisit this thread. The American Conservative, huh?
I completely disagree with Truman being on this list. In fact, it could be argued for him to be on a 5 best list. I don’t have time to elaborate right now, but we’ll revisit this thread. The American Conservative, huh?
I was also a little confused by that. Seems like the author blamed Truman for the cold war? Not sure I agree with that. The rest of the list is pretty solid, though. Bush, LBJ, Wilson, definitely top three for foreign policy mistakes.
@pliny-the-elder, I found it interesting that a conservative opinion piece in 2017 would take aim at some of those wars and policies. At the time, I think all of the policies against communism, Vietnam, and Iraq were supported by a majority of conservatives.
A lot of selective memory and cherry-picking facts here.
Truman, No mention ig Greece? Keeping the Soviets out of Japan? NATO has issues but those fall on subsequent US leniency as Trump noted in his first term.
Where is Obama? Libya, the “red line” nonsense, Iran JCPOA and pallets of cash, are still costing us.
George W is much more nuanced. Getting rid of Hussein and neutralizing the Taliban were good moves. But then he tried to do too much with that. I blame Powell for the “ we broke it, we own it” mistake.
Madison: The war in Europe continued to rage and neither the Brits or the French took the United States seriously. Jefferson started the English embargo, not Madison. Madison did not cause the war of 1812. He may not have been the best given the Euopean situation at that time, but he wasn’t a controlling factor in those events. During the early years, Jefferson was decidedly pro-fFrance and his attitude toward England was the opposite of Washington’s more pragmatic approach. I’d put Jefferson in that list before Madison.
@co-hoosier Obama's mistakes don't come close to Bush's. Invading Iraq was as big a blunder as we've had. And Obama can't make the mistakes he made if we hadn't already unleashed Isis in the region.
Madison: The war in Europe continued to rage and neither the Brits or the French took the United States seriously. Jefferson started the English embargo, not Madison. Madison did not cause the war of 1812. He may not have been the best given the Euopean situation at that time, but he wasn’t a controlling factor in those events. During the early years, Jefferson was decidedly pro-fFrance and his attitude toward England was the opposite of Washington’s more pragmatic approach. I’d put Jefferson in that list before Madison.
On this we agree. Much like Obama's mistakes came from dealing with Bush's shitshow, Madison did a poor job cleaning up after Jefferson. Of course, The American Conservative wouldn't be likely to find fault with a conservative icon.
@unclemark Are you referring to Jefferson with that last remark? I think he's as much an icon on the left as the right, isn't he?
@co-hoosier Obama's mistakes don't come close to Bush's. Invading Iraq was as big a blunder as we've had. And Obama can't make the mistakes he made if we hadn't already unleashed Isis in the region.
Bush’s Iraq Blunder was serious and acute. Obama’s Iran blunder has created a chronic condition.
@co-hoosier "has created?"
Iran has been a chronic condition since 1979. And we still have 2,500 troops stationed in Iraq.
@unclemark Are you referring to Jefferson with that last remark? I think he's as much an icon on the left as the right, isn't he?
I wouldn't say so. And yes, I'm old enough to remember the Jefferson/Jackson dinners. My Goldwater loving dad always said he considered himself a "Jeffersonian Democrat."
A lot of selective memory and cherry-picking facts here.
Truman, No mention ig Greece? Keeping the Soviets out of Japan? NATO has issues but those fall on subsequent US leniency as Trump noted in his first term.
Where is Obama? Libya, the “red line” nonsense, Iran JCPOA and pallets of cash, are still costing us.
George W is much more nuanced. Getting rid of Hussein and neutralizing the Taliban were good moves. But then he tried to do too much with that. I blame Powell for the “ we broke it, we own it” mistake.
Madison: The war in Europe continued to rage and neither the Brits or the French took the United States seriously. Jefferson started the English embargo, not Madison. Madison did not cause the war of 1812. He may not have been the best given the Euopean situation at that time, but he wasn’t a controlling factor in those events. During the early years, Jefferson was decidedly pro-fFrance and his attitude toward England was the opposite of Washington’s more pragmatic approach. I’d put Jefferson in that list before Madison.
I just started reading this thread and I thought I'd be the only one to include Jefferson.
Well done.
I'd say Jefferson, Wilson, FDR (for his dithering prior to WWII, which made it worse, and not preparing for a war with Japan), LBJ, and Carter/Obama (pick one).
Coming up fast is Trump, imo. His position on Ukraine is as frustrating as it is mystifying. I wonder if his insistence on not getting involved there is because he wants to be like FDR).
DANC
@co-hoosier Obama's mistakes don't come close to Bush's. Invading Iraq was as big a blunder as we've had. And Obama can't make the mistakes he made if we hadn't already unleashed Isis in the region.
Bush’s Iraq Blunder was serious and acute. Obama’s Iran blunder has created a chronic condition.
Bush's blunder was because of faulty intelligence, not because of a flawed foreign policy.
In light of 9/11, it's understandable why the intelligence community erred the way it did.
DANC
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