You know the ONE coach I really wanted? Coach Sampson. I watched him beat Coach Knight and Texas Tech by out-coaching Coach in a game Tech had had in the bag ... except that Sampson kept coaching while Knight just watched from the bench until it was too late. I told my sister the next day as she also had watched it, "I wish Indiana could get a coach like that!" So when he was hired much later I was over the moon. Then I heard Sampson was sleazy and that turned out to be true. So #### him. At least DeVries is going to leave the program in better shape than he found it.
What does that have to do with anything that I can do anything about? And what do you want me to do about it if it does have to do with anything?so what do you think he can do to overcome this. Why are we here. How is this scenario in a macro sense any different than the type of Mumbo jumbo Woodson or Archie fed us. To me it sounds like that same ole same ole. Yes the philosophy or verbiage may be a little different etc. but similar song and dance
Did I like the Archie hire? Not a ton, but media sure said he was the berries. So I watched and hoped. Did I like the Woodson hire? Not much but it was such a swing out of left field I hoped, 'maybe'...I hoped he could recruit NBA potential guys. Durp.
Did I like the DeVries hire? I wanted another guy or two probably, but liked this hire more than the last two.
Did I see any other programs do clearly any better in their coaching hires? No. Other than May at Michigan.
I think the question of 'what can he do to overcome' is rather stupid. It just is. He can coach and recruit. Like the other hundreds of Div 1 coaches. He will work at his job.
Will he do well? I don't know, I'm optimistic. You're not. I don't care much about who likes our coach and who thinks he sucks.
,
I was asking your opinion .... how is it stupid to ask how you think he will overcome this going forward ... maybe stay off the roids jease
Some remember the past when in Knight's initial 22 years, Indiana won 3 NCAAs and 11 Big 10 Championships. In the 33 years that followed, all IU has accomplished is an NCAA runner-up and only 3 Big 10 Conference Championships. For a number of fans getting into the NCAA tourney is a major deal as national championships are dusty banners hanging in Assembly Hall. With the current structure of collegiate basketball and the 18 team inflated size of the Big 10, I don't expect IU to return to those 22 glory years of the Knight reign. I'd be happy to see the Hoosiers achieve NCAA prominence by annually being a top 20 team, experience disappointment when the team doesn't get beyond the Sweet 16 and win an outright conference title or conference tournament every 4 or so years.
Thats not what you were doing.I was asking your opinion .... how is it stupid to ask how you think he will overcome this going forward ...
You were posting the - same old Indiana, we have no expectations! Archie, Woodson! post. Ill wait until somebody else chimes in with the we are Mayberry post, then Ill think about it.
But thats OK, everybody has an opinion. Fine to post it. Yes, I am grouchy today, sorry about the jabs.
no that's not what I was doing. I was asking your opinion...
I am curious as to how many of you think or feel what needs to be done and how you see him handling it As previously stated as nauseum I don't see it so I'm trying to see the other side ... I see issues that I'm not sure I sense he can overcome
so yeah I want to hear some ideas , other than he's a good coach and it takes time Been there done that , what makes him different and why are you all so sure ?
@hoosiers94 At least a small part of the reason he came to IU was to showcase his son. As a parent I don't blame him one bit, but it seems he might have hitched his wagon to the wrong guy. I genuinely believe DD thought TD would make up for roster deficiencies.
TD isn't a bad player by any means, but 40%/34% aren't the numbers of a #1. Or a #2, tbh.
Top 10 thinnest rosters in CBB? 🤣
Guess not, but wild Iowa State has two in the top 10. Top heavy?
Good stat, however they calculated it. DeVries has been helping out with defense, rebounding, and (slow as it might be) hustle and team play. He draws defensive attention. But if he doesnt score going forward, we are going down. At least the emergence of Dorn and maybe Bailey makes the scoring a bit less critical. But TD is in a shooting slump, unless its just what he does against big ten level.
Bailey will only flourish against teams that play poor defense or don't have a presence in the middle so it's the luck of the matchup as to whether he can be effective. Dorn was basically silenced against USC. Hopefully it's just a bad game. However there isn't enough of a sample size to say what he did the previous 4/5 games is actually who he is ... and not to mention the scouting reports will now include him which means they won't let him roam as freely. Good thing is with 3/4 scoring options it becomes harder to defend us .. if they all show up. Opposing teams D will start to crank up as the season moves on here and the reality of post season and conference tournaments start to near.. teams that need wins or teams turning it up a notch or two because they can smell the post season coming could also test our team and that's where the mid major talent could break in 2. We will see. Hopefully they have hardened enough to play through that and continue to get some much needed W's. I'm
Top 10 thinnest rosters in CBB? 🤣
Guess not, but wild Iowa State has two in the top 10. Top heavy?
Good stat, however they calculated it. DeVries has been helping out with defense, rebounding, and (slow as it might be) hustle and team play. He draws defensive attention. But if he doesnt score going forward, we are going down. At least the emergence of Dorn and maybe Bailey makes the scoring a bit less critical. But TD is in a shooting slump, unless its just what he does against big ten level.
assume it’s some version of +/-. Pretty meaningless stat, as far as I’m concerned.
@hoosiers94 What can he do to overcome this? He's finishing an up and down season, right now. So with this team, and finishing this season... I think leaning in to teaching, leading, motivating them to play more consistently. "Each possession has a life of its own"..."1 through 15"... Channel those sorts of thoughts and teachings from Cig. Also, don't fall in to the trap of feeling like Conerway needs to play a ton of minutes now that he's back. Like Bailey, he's very inconsistent with his focus and... effort even. He can do some things that others can't, and we're not an overly deep team, even at the guard/wing positions. But we won 3 gams in a row, and played some of our best basketball of the season, largely without him. And we looked markedly worse against USC, when he was in the game. It'd be interesting to get CDD's honest take on Ristic. My eyes tell me he's going to be a really good college guard. Why not get him some run? Anyway... if he can get them to play even a smidge more consistently well, they'll probably make the NCAA. That is NOT the standard, at IU. But one of the reasons so many people, and posters, bring that up as a measuring stick, is the tournament is SOOOOO much more fun when IU is in it. And its been pretty common of late, that we haven't. So just making it, over a long number of years, isn't the goal or the standard. But for THIS year, for our first year coach, it'd be a decent accomplishment.
So... get them to play more consistently, and make the NCAA tournament. That's what he can do to finish this season.
Then, after the season... he needs to convince Dorn, Sisley, Miles, Harris, and Ristic to come back. Those 5, plus the current incoming freshman, form a solid core starting point for the roster next year. With the remaining 5 scholarships... go get a top 25 starting level PG, 2 top 25 main rotation level bigs, an elite 3 and D wing/guard, and then some sort of dawg, athletic, competitor. Convince Dolson, and others, that you need the flexibility in your NIL budget to make that happen. Make sure a couple of those 5 guys have more than 1 year of eligibility left, too, like you did well with your first portal class.
Then... when they're all together... continue to teach and coach your open, cutting, screening style offense, and high pressure defense. And next year, take a step forward, and compete better towards the top of the B10, get a top 4/5 seed in NCAA, and push for a S16.
@hoosiers94 Why are we here? Pretty obviously because of the last 2 hires, and then whatever led to keeping Woodson, and convincing donors that it was a good idea to pump money in to NIL to help Woodson. And then just the overall landscape changing, to where blue bloods like Kentucky and Louisville, and Indiana, weren't able to pull bigger, more established names, to their school when they had coaching searches going.
The last 2 hires have created some apathy in the support of the program.
Keeping Woodson, AND pulling money out of key donors, backfired, and Dolson and CDD didn't really have anywhere near the same level of buy in or support to get CDD's program going. Everyone knows the proper thing to do, was to fire Woodson after year 3, hire May, and use that war chest of money to help May get his program rolling... Like Michigan did. But that didn't happen. May was a unique opportunity for IU. Hot young name, had made a Final Four, Indiana ties... And IU, in what has become true IU bball management form, blew it. When they allowed that 4th year to play out, they made the inevitable coaching search much more difficult. I think they should have pushed much harder for McCollum. But DeVries was a solid hire. Glad they didn't go after guys like Beard, Drew, or Cronin... As none of those guys playing styles, are as fun to follow as CDD's. And none of them are really showing at their current schools, that they're navigating the new portal/NIL era any better than CDD has, or will.
And then... IU was never going to get a guy like Stevens, Pearl, Oats...whatever other "big" name would virtually assure success immediately. At least its misguided to expect them to, when UK and Louisville couldn't. Heck, why do you think UNC still has Hubert Davis? Because they know its unlikely they'd land someone obviously better.
@hoosiers94 How is this hire different from Archie/Woodson? I do have to agree, a lot of the arguments for CDD, right now, sound a lot like the early arguments for Archie and Woodson. The major differences I see... his style of play more closely matches the modern game, and CDD has proven to have an ability to turn programs around, at his 2 other stops.
Style of play... we're too reliant on the 3 point shot, right now. But I don't think that's because CDD's style is broken. I think its because he and the players know that Conerway is the only player on the team that's comfortable and capable of scoring at the rim, from the position they're being asked to play. And what has become our three best players, Wilkerson, DeVries, and Dorn (verdict out on Dorn, but he's emerging)... they're all higher volume 3 point shooters. Insert a good, physical big in to CDD's offense, and I think that 3 point usage shifts a fair bit. Think of someone like Flory Bidunga finishing those dump downs and dives and lobs, instead of Bailey. Having a guy like that, or two, should balance the offense out quite a bit. And then defensively, the high ball pressure defense with some packline principles behind it, should be sustainable and successful, with decent athletes playing it.
Drake was in the dumpster when CDD took it over. He built it to one of the best programs in the Valley. WVU was in a similar spot, respective to its peers in the B12. In his first year, he flipped it, and nearly took them to the NCAA tournament. Archie didn't "turn Dayton around". He inherited a pretty good program from Brian Gregory, and made it marginally better. Woodson had no college coaching history whatsoever. And wasn't really known as a "program builder" in the NBA, either.
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