As dumb as it sounds, I was very encouraged.
I think when we can get some players and have some of the roster already trained by DeVries from previous years, he will be able to win.
We are often out-rostered, and that is a shame.
My concern still is how long it takes for him to 'coach em up'. The difference in defensive intensity between Michigan and us was evident. Alexis clearly seemed to think being in reasonable position a couple feet in front of a guy was working hard on defense. And then his guy would just shoot, because there was enough room and Alexis would close and try to get a hand up but was too late. And then similar setup their guy would attack and block our shot or hand in our face with much faster reaction times. I'm sure over time Coach will have us better on dee. And part of it is lacking athletes, we sort of have to play off a bit.
,
As dumb as it sounds, I was very encouraged.
I think when we can get some players and have some of the roster already trained by DeVries from previous years, he will be able to win.
We are often out-rostered, and that is a shame.
My concern still is how long it takes for him to 'coach em up'. The difference in defensive intensity between Michigan and us was evident. Alexis clearly seemed to think being in reasonable position a couple feet in front of a guy was working hard on defense. And then his guy would just shoot, because there was enough room and Alexis would close and try to get a hand up but was too late. And then similar setup their guy would attack and block our shot or hand in our face with much faster reaction times. I'm sure over time Coach will have us better on dee. And part of it is lacking athletes, we sort of have to play off a bit.
,
Some of the roster trained? There will be two guys coming back who have played and that assumes they don't hit the portal. He will probably have to overpay to keep them. And neither one of them are game changers. Unless he gets a ton of money for the portal to get athletic highly end guys I really do not see how he is going to win big. The assumption that he will just suddenly kill in the portal is just that an assumption. After the team he picked last spring I find it hard to think he will suddenly just kill it.
But the guys on facebook would agree with you they think this is a multi year rebuild and these are going exactly like planned.
M
As dumb as it sounds, I was very encouraged.
I think when we can get some players and have some of the roster already trained by DeVries from previous years, he will be able to win.
We are often out-rostered, and that is a shame.
My concern still is how long it takes for him to 'coach em up'. The difference in defensive intensity between Michigan and us was evident. Alexis clearly seemed to think being in reasonable position a couple feet in front of a guy was working hard on defense. And then his guy would just shoot, because there was enough room and Alexis would close and try to get a hand up but was too late. And then similar setup their guy would attack and block our shot or hand in our face with much faster reaction times. I'm sure over time Coach will have us better on dee. And part of it is lacking athletes, we sort of have to play off a bit.
,
Some of the roster trained? There will be two guys coming back who have played and that assumes they don't hit the portal. He will probably have to overpay to keep them. And neither one of them are game changers. Unless he gets a ton of money for the portal to get athletic highly end guys I really do not see how he is going to win big. The assumption that he will just suddenly kill in the portal is just that an assumption. After the team he picked last spring I find it hard to think he will suddenly just kill it.
But the guys on facebook would agree with you they think this is a multi year rebuild and these are going exactly like planned.
Robert you are dead on balls accurate.. how anyone could think he's going to just wake up one day and now have the portal figured out , how to assemble a big ten roster figured out , how to coach a winning team in the big ten figured out are fooling themselves. Didn't we hire a guy who was supposed to win from get go. I mean who today hires a guy with the portal and nil available that he needs a few years to learn the system in order to have success... I'll tell you those that don't care about winning. And maybe now that we have football success we don't ... but that's a mistake. We had basketball success and we ignored football for a century. You'd think we'd learn from that and use the attention and momentum that football has brought to the university to resurrect the basketball program. Look at Alabamas enrollment numbers since Saban. Look at their basketball program since Saban. Now we have a history in basketball an aura ... it should be easier than somewhere like Alabama. Those that think Door Knob, aka DK , is going to miraculously wake up and have it figured out are nuts.
We may have 4/5 guys come back if we are lucky. Do we even want them? I'd take back Sisley , Dorn, Ristic.. only because I have no idea what he's got, The rest I'm not so sure about. We have the two recruits for next year. I guess I'd take them. But if they were evaluated by DoorKnob , not sure if they are any good. Who's to say any of them won't be poached either. The fact that he only brought TD with him from WV is a massive red flag to me. Something stinks in suburbia
@hoosiers94 and Owen.
I never said by next year. I said year(s) . So this thing about having his guys returning and trained for next year is just made up straw man crap from you guys. Not from me.
A coach who will 'just wake up one day' and know how? Come on...
He was a long time assistant under two reasonably successful coaches, who both made statements when he was hired that he's good. He got 30 wins multiple times at Drake. He went 19-9 in year one at West Virginia, a team that stunk the year before. Most say if his kid wasn't out they make the tournament, and should've anyway.
Just because he struggled this season, he suddenly doesn't know shit about winning basketball?
Come on...
Plenty of people have stated we cheaped out on NIL. Someone posted on here that he lost a guy for his staff, and also lost out on one of his WVU players. Now I don't know, but it sounds plausible.
If he has unlimited resources as some keep saying, then of course he will dominate the portal this off season. He is just going to bid the $3-5-10 million dollars it takes per player. Since we have this massive war chest.
When Dolson comes out and publicly says where we intend to rank on NIL, as he did in football, and says 'at the very top', I may start believing you guys on that part. About having huge resources the last off-season, that matched Michigan's and some other big time programs such as Duke and UConn.
I believe he will have to get HS recruits, play moneyball with a very good eye, have those guys in the system for a few years, add a couple from the portal, retain his guys with our NIL resources. Sort of the Purdue model.
Do I think he can? Of course. Not sure why he would suddenly become some chump.
,
@hoosiers94 and Owen.
I never said by next year. I said year(s) . So this thing about having his guys returning and trained for next year is just made up straw man crap from you guys. Not from me.
A coach who will 'just wake up one day' and know how? Come on...
He was a long time assistant under two reasonably successful coaches, who both made statements when he was hired that he's good. He got 30 wins multiple times at Drake. He went 19-9 in year one at West Virginia, a team that stunk the year before. Most say if his kid wasn't out they make the tournament, and should've anyway.
Just because he struggled this season, he suddenly doesn't know shit about winning basketball?
Come on...
Plenty of people have stated we cheaped out on NIL. Someone posted on here that he lost a guy for his staff, and also lost out on one of his WVU players. Now I don't know, but it sounds plausible.
If he has unlimited resources as some keep saying, then of course he will dominate the portal this off season. He is just going to bid the $3-5-10 million dollars it takes per player. Since we have this massive war chest.
When Dolson comes out and publicly says where we intend to rank on NIL, as he did in football, and says 'at the very top', I may start believing you guys on that part. About having huge resources the last off-season, that matched Michigan's and some other big time programs such as Duke and UConn.
I believe he will have to get HS recruits, play moneyball with a very good eye, have those guys in the system for a few years, add a couple from the portal, retain his guys with our NIL resources. Sort of the Purdue model.
Do I think he can? Of course. Not sure why he would suddenly become some chump.
,
You could say the same thing about archie he won at dayton and was a home run hire they claimed. Heck archie even made an elite 8. Many guys who win at mid majors fail big at a big time programs. I really not care if he won at Drake I only car if he can win at IU and so far it looks like he cannot.
M
As dumb as it sounds, I was very encouraged.
I think when we can get some players and have some of the roster already trained by DeVries from previous years, he will be able to win.
We are often out-rostered, and that is a shame.
My concern still is how long it takes for him to 'coach em up'. The difference in defensive intensity between Michigan and us was evident. Alexis clearly seemed to think being in reasonable position a couple feet in front of a guy was working hard on defense. And then his guy would just shoot, because there was enough room and Alexis would close and try to get a hand up but was too late. And then similar setup their guy would attack and block our shot or hand in our face with much faster reaction times. I'm sure over time Coach will have us better on dee. And part of it is lacking athletes, we sort of have to play off a bit.
,
Some of the roster trained? There will be two guys coming back who have played and that assumes they don't hit the portal. He will probably have to overpay to keep them. And neither one of them are game changers. Unless he gets a ton of money for the portal to get athletic highly end guys I really do not see how he is going to win big. The assumption that he will just suddenly kill in the portal is just that an assumption. After the team he picked last spring I find it hard to think he will suddenly just kill it.
But the guys on facebook would agree with you they think this is a multi year rebuild and these are going exactly like planned.
Robert you are dead on balls accurate.. how anyone could think he's going to just wake up one day and now have the portal figured out , how to assemble a big ten roster figured out , how to coach a winning team in the big ten figured out are fooling themselves. Didn't we hire a guy who was supposed to win from get go. I mean who today hires a guy with the portal and nil available that he needs a few years to learn the system in order to have success... I'll tell you those that don't care about winning. And maybe now that we have football success we don't ... but that's a mistake. We had basketball success and we ignored football for a century. You'd think we'd learn from that and use the attention and momentum that football has brought to the university to resurrect the basketball program. Look at Alabamas enrollment numbers since Saban. Look at their basketball program since Saban. Now we have a history in basketball an aura ... it should be easier than somewhere like Alabama. Those that think Door Knob, aka DK , is going to miraculously wake up and have it figured out are nuts.
We may have 4/5 guys come back if we are lucky. Do we even want them? I'd take back Sisley , Dorn, Ristic.. only because I have no idea what he's got, The rest I'm not so sure about. We have the two recruits for next year. I guess I'd take them. But if they were evaluated by DoorKnob , not sure if they are any good. Who's to say any of them won't be poached either. The fact that he only brought TD with him from WV is a massive red flag to me. Something stinks in suburbia
Dorn, Sisley, and ristic non of which are game changers will likely have to be overpayed to come back. Maybe not sisley because he likes iu but the other two probably because DD has to bring some guys back. As far as the two recruits I think they are ranked in the top 150 but likely not impact guys. I just do not see what he has to sell that will land top 30 portal players. The only thing he can do is overpay but I doubt he will have the money to do that.
There was a ton of home run hire talk on Archie, from people not even IU people.
But IMO, at the time, all I could see was a guy who kept Dayton going at about the same pace they did under the previous guy. I was not jazzed, except that many were saying he was the true basketball nut in the family, not his brother.
Dolson said he wasn't going after an Archie guy who took over and maintained a program, he wanted a program builder. Weird that a Drake guy that exceeded the previous Drake guy in just one year, and had won national titles by building a program (In DII) wasn't his guy.
Anyway, despite me badly wanting a different Drake guy, I don't think our guy forgot how to coach. He has a good track record.
Winning at Drake is a lot different than winning at IU , UNC, Kansas, Kentucky etc.
And giving him "time" to get his players on the same page etc. what does that mean ?
"But but but ... guys like Hurley and Golden didn't win right away." That's what pro-Knob folks are hanging their hats on. Maybe they didn't kill it right away, but the job was never too big for them. Imo, DK's ceiling is WVU. He and his son should have just stayed there.Winning at Drake is a lot different than winning at IU , UNC, Kansas, Kentucky etc.
And giving him "time" to get his players on the same page etc. what does that mean ?
Winning at Drake is a lot different than winning at IU , UNC, Kansas, Kentucky etc.
And giving him "time" to get his players on the same page etc. what does that mean ?
Giving him time was what you did when Crean started from zero and had to build through hs players. DD is going to mostly all brand new players again next year so just how do you build with another all new roster. You either have it or you do not. We saw very clearly with archie winning at Dayton is much different than winning at IU. And how is what DD did at Drake any better than what Archie did at Dayton? DD never got passed the first round of the NCAA at least Archie did twice.
Agreed, it is different.Winning at Drake is a lot different than winning at IU , UNC, Kansas, Kentucky etc.
And giving him "time" to get his players on the same page etc. what does that mean ?
I don't understand the question. How is it asking something different than what I already said?
Almost no coach has all his guys at 100% their first year. They improve each year. From coaching. And just about every coach including Cig lauds the results you get from already having established the culture with the returning players who teach the new players.
So, what is the question?
All these excuses. Bottom line , imo , I don't see DD.. I don't see his talent , I don't see his leadership , I don't see a leader of men, I don't see it. And when you don't see it why keep it. That's insanity. Again my opinion. Hurley and Golden have charisma. They are leaders. They don't put up with shit. DD has lost this team and it's his first year. How are we to believe somehow next year will just somehow be better. Don't see it. Should have taken this awesome opportunity and done well with it at day 1. Not day 366
@bigmike NCAA's not looking likely, right now. A loss to Rutgers, well, that'd probably end that discussion. Trying to pull optimism... Tucker seemed to find something in 2nd half. IU didn't get 30-40 point housed, like Michigan has shown they can do to decent teams even.
Get the Rutgers game, find something in that game to carry over to Tuesday's game, and kick off a resurgence by beating those A-holes.
I remember how we were really down with McCollum and Jim Crutchfield (Nova Southeastern) even if his age was always going against him. Another guy I really liked and was interested in was Josh Schertz from Indiana State now at St. Louis.
I don't know if any of them would have worked out or would work out in the future. I was fine with DeVries. But, if I remember correctly, there was delay and confusion around filling out his staff. I don't recall if that bled into the portal as well, but things seemed to be unsettled for too long during that time. The impression that I'm under is that during that time period - and I have no idea if it's correct or not - is that DeVries didn't have full and/or organized access to the portal and wound up missing on all the big fish. I'm not sure why that was or, like I said, if that's even true - but that's the impression I got. I'd love to know what all was happening and when back then.
The effort levels make me nervous, but there is a view I can take whereby the players themselves are defeated. Perhaps any confidence they previously had has been eroded by the gap in ability between them and their nightly competition? It's one thing for a mid-major to get up every once in a while to slay Goliath but there's a reason why they would be uncompetitive if they had to do it game in, game out. In any event, if this is the case there's not a lot the coaches can do to instill confidence/motivation. Bad coaching isn't the only way to lose the locker room - compiling a non-competitive roster can accomplish the same thing once reality hits. I don't think there's realistically anything DeVries can do to "coach up" this group. They are what they are.
All that said, I'm still curious to see what the offseason will bring this year. I think Prince Moody-Alexander will be very good and I'm looking forward to Vaughn Karvala. I have to think the portal will be much more organized and targeted this year which will result in a MUCH better roster. I'm anxious to see if it will indeed play out that way.
All that said, I'm still curious to see what the offseason will bring this year. I think Prince Moody-Alexander will be very good and I'm looking forward to Vaughn Karvala. I have to think the portal will be much more organized and targeted this year which will result in a MUCH better roster. I'm anxious to see if it will indeed play out that way.
Agree, and it's all we can really do. He's not getting fired after one season. I just cannot imagine that happening. I was more on board with the idea of McCollum myself, or even Beard but I guess that was just too controversial for IU especially after Sampson. But we hired DeVries, he's not an idiot, he will get a chance to correct his roster and prove what he can (or cannot) do.
@seyton I don't think any of us on this forum know, for sure, how the CDD hire came to be, and then exactly how his first few months played out. But it is a fact that his staff was unsettled for a bit initially. And that likely had an impact on getting "in on" some of the higher end portal talent. But then, to counter that, he did get visits from high end guys like Conwell, and missed out. But especially with big men, it is very possible that not having Kenny and Rod in place heading in to the prime portal season, hurt us pretty badly. And then, again, I don't think any of us really know what we had to work with, budget wise. And/or if we had the elasticity to go to a guy like Cuban, to get the extra money to land Flory Bidunga, if CDD really wanted him. The perception is we had a much smaller fixed budget than Woody had, and that we didn't really have any big donors to help land truly elite guys via much larger bags that might be needed. In fact, how we ended up losing out on guys like Conwell, is potential evidence that CDD did have a fixed budget, and because he had to build an entire roster, he didn't encounter a guy worth blowing 30-40% of his budget on... So... the end result is the roster we have.
I still think he made an error not getting someone like Hansberry. Didn't need to be an elite guy like Bidunga. But having said that, many believe that Alexis and Josh Harris were supposed to be "those types of guys". And Alexis has been very inconsistent, and Harris has been hurt.
This upcoming offseason will tell the story, for me, on CDD's future and tenure, at IU.
1. How many current guys believe in him, and his program, enough to stay at IU? We have potentially impactful guys with eligibility left. Sisley and Dorn, namely. But Ristic has also been solid in the minutes he's gotten. And then we just don't know with the rest, because they've been injured. But if Sisley, Dorn, Ristic, and then a couple of Harris, Drake, and Amisovic... all return, that is a good sign. If very few of them return, that is a continuing bad sign. CDD, for whatever reasons, didn't bring many with him to IU. Very few form his staff. Tucker the only WVU player, Enright from previous years. Contrast that with guys like McCollum and Cignetti, who build a big chunk of their staff and roster, with players from their previous stops.
2. Does he target, and land, athletic and physical bigs?
3. Does he target, and land, more obvious NBA level guards and wings?
4. Do Johnson, Clark, etc.. all stick around? Same dynamic as number 1.
If the answers are mostly no to the above questions... I'll become much more in lock step with some of our more vocal anti CDD posters. If we do return most of our guys eligible to return...and then if we get a banger or two, and a couple stud wing/guards, and the staff stays intact. There's no reason to think next year's team can't or won't be better than this years team.
Many have said last year's team had a hard budget of 10Million, with really no elasticity to stretch for studs. Lets say this years is 12million. And the mood from football being so good, that guys like Cuban, etc... are a little more willing to help out when/if we need some extra cash above that. I don't think that's unrealistic, at all.
Sisley... 800K
Dorn... 700K
Ristic... 400K
Harris...400K
Amicovic...300K
Moody-Alexander... 400K
Karvala... 400K
That adds up to a little over 3 million bucks. Leaving roughly 9 million to fill the remaining slots...without much of any stretching for elite level guys.
Impactful big...2 million
Impactful PG... 2 million
NBA level wing....3 million
main rotation level, versatile wing...1 million
That leaves a million bucks or so, for spots 12 and 13, and if there's any elasticity, maybe that could end up being an elite player on top of the above...
And this offseason, CDD, and Kenny Johnson, and Rod Clark, are probably already sending out feelers on potential portal guys. And then they'll all have all of March to fully recruit.
Nothing I typed out above is outlandish, sunshine pumping...
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